• PiperForum.com is a vibrant community of Piper owners and pilots. Our over 1,500+ active members use Piper Forum to swap technical knowledge, plan meetups and sell planes/parts. We host technical knowledge of general aviation topics and specific topics on J3-Cubs, Cherokees, Comanches, Pacers and more. In addition to an instant community of pilots for you, PiperForum.com is a library of technical topics, airplane builds, images, technical manuals, technical documents and more.

    Access to PiperForum.com is subscription based. Subscriptions are only $49.99/year or $6.99/month to gain access to this great community and unmatched library of Piper knowledge.

    Click Here to Become a Subscribing Member and Access PiperForum.com in Full!

Maximal crosswind technique

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

stran

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
137
Reaction score
24
Per AOPA's Piper Cherokee Safety Highlights :

The PA-28 series aircraft have a maximum demonstrated crosswind
of 17 knots. This means that they were tested in winds up to 17
knots, but may actually be able to endure stronger winds. The PA-28
has the reputation of being a good crosswind airplane, due to the low
wings and wide gear. However, the pilot’s capabilities may be less
than the aerodynamic limitations.


Which begs the question, what is the proper technique to land in 17 knot (or higher) x-winds?

Here's the scenario I encountered:

Per AWOS, surface winds were 11-19 kts direct 90 degree crosswind to either runway. I was coming in for fuel and was thinking of myself, this probably exceeds my limitation and perhaps even my aircraft's limitations, I should divert to another field with a more favorable runway. But I wanted to know what this feels like so I decided to give myself 2 approaches, would only touch down if everything was stable, otherwise divert.

First approach I used the same technique as all my other other approaches - full flaps on final, put in side slip correction as needed all the way down to the runway. It quickly became apparent that I had nowhere near enough aileron to overcome the x-wind and was getting blown down wind.

Second time around, I remember vaguely reading that with no flaps, approach speeds are higher and therefore controls are more effective. With no flaps and full ailerons, I was barely holding the centerline in my sideslip. Approach was stable and smooth, decided to land. Worked out fine minus a lot of shaking afterwards.

My thoughts:

**Two competing schools of thought regarding x-wind is the crab v. side slip. Why not do both?

**If ASOS reports surface winds of 17 knots, wind speed at the beginning of final approach at 500-800ft AGL will certainly be higher than 17 knots. Even if you're unable to maintain side slip at 800 ft, you might be able to at the surface when trees and terrain are block some of that wind. So crab AND sideslip up high, take out the crab lower the ground. How low depends on how comfortable you are.

**It takes a surprising amount of muscle to hold full aileron deflection on the yoke with one hand, the other hand obviously on the throttle. No advice here other than to be mentally prepared. Maybe hit the gym regularly? The only time I've put in full deflection at cruise speed was during an aerobatic lessons in a Decathlon. Decathlons have aerodynamic spades which reduces tremendously the input forces required. I was definitely not prepared for the forces on a Cherokee.

**I well below gross as I wasn't carry any passengers and only had about 2 hrs of fuel on board. This means my stall speed (i.e. touch down speed) was lower than the book number. Slower speeds means control surfaces are less effective. Probably the only time where carrying extra weigh is helpful. I assume the 17 knot book number was obtained under ideal scenarios which means at gross.

**The landing was surprisingly flat. Yes, the upwind wheel touched down first, but with full aileron, I was worried about scraping the upwind wing against the lights. Definitely was not an issue.

I read through lots of forums and while there are lots of advice about the basic technique for x-winds, I don't think the maximal crosswind question has been asked before. Would love to hear and learn from other people.

Thanks
 

Latest posts

Back
Top