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Making the cherokee 180 IFR capable

Supercop0184

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I am wanting to make my 65 cherokee 180 IFR capable to start my IFR training. Like others, i am not yet wanting to spend a huge amount of money at this time, and I'm not sure what the minimum equipment i would need to get this started. I currently have one navcom, one VOR with glide slope. What all would I need to be able to start my IFR?
Thanks!!!!View attachment ImageUploadedByPiper Forum1417853519.164904.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByPiper Forum1417853531.151907.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByPiper Forum1417853545.457063.jpg

A look at my current panel. Thanks!
 

TEG916

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First I would make sure you have everything listed in FAR 91.205 listed as required for VFR and IFR flight in working order in your aircraft.

Ideally, adding a WAAS GPS and a second VOR reciever would make your aircraft very capable although it may be a bit expensive. A G430W or better GPS would act as a second NAV/COM, allow you to fly GPS approaches, and eliminate the need for a DME where it is required. Also if you consider the ADS-B mandate in 2020, a GPS with WAAS will be required in order to connect to your transponder, so it might be the best long term investment.

At a minimum, I would think you would want a second NAV/COM, and a second VOR reciever. This would allow you to fly IFR, but you would be very limited. Many GA airports only have GPS approaches, so you could not land there in instrument conditions. Some approaches require a DME, so you could not shoot those. Your workload would be quite high, because you would have to identify which intersection you are crossing by triangulating between you 2 VORs. If you added a DME to this setup, that would greatly reduce your workload, and make more approaches available to you.

Option 2 would be cheaper in the short term, but by 2020 when you may want to upgrade your aircraft to ADS-B out it may not be.
 
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Ray93J

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First I would make sure you have everything listed in FAR 91.205 listed as required for VFR and IFR flight in working order in your aircraft.

Ideally, adding a WAAS GPS and a second VOR reciever would make your aircraft very capable although it may be a bit expensive. A G430W or better GPS would act as a second NAV/COM, allow you to fly GPS approaches, and eliminate the need for a DME where it is required. Also if you consider the ADS-B mandate in 2020, a GPS with WAAS will be required in order to connect to your transponder, so it might be the best long term investment.

At a minimum, I would think you would want a second NAV/COM, and a second VOR reciever. This would allow you to fly IFR, but you would be very limited. Many GA airports only have GPS approaches, so you could not land there in instrument conditions. Some approaches require a DME, so you could not shoot those. Your workload would be quite high, because you would have to identify which intersection you are crossing by triangulating between you 2 VORs. If you added a DME to this setup, that would greatly reduce your workload, and make more approaches available to you.

Option 2 would be cheaper in the short term, but by 2020 when you may want to upgrade your aircraft to ADS-B out it may not be.
All good advice. Talk to whoever you plan to use for an instructor. If you spend any money, I would go towards a 430W. Yes, I know it is expensive, but it is a very capable box. Better to spend money on a 430W vs a second Nav Com. 430 is NAV/COM GPS, better suited if you really plan on using the IFR rating. Take a look at your Audio panel. It is a very early kit built RST unit. I have one of the later versions. With only the current single NAV/COM, you do not need an audio panel. Yes, you need intercom. Make sure the audio panel has a bypass feature. I know later versions do. This will allow the radio to work it the audio panel fails. If you spend money on a 430W, plan on a new audio panel/intercom. Make sure you have a heated pitot, too. If you plan to use the auto pilot, make sure the mechanical cable works silky smooth. If not, get it fixed. If it breaks, you can not dissengage the auto pilot. I have a later version and replaced the cable this year, after it broke on the ground. Also, the DG is part of the autopilot system. It does not track a magnetic heading, but tracks a heading of 0. Not very usefull in IFR. Just to give you something else to think about is that NARCO MK12D. I have a 12D+ and love it. Buy, if it breaks or is in need a some major service, you may be out of luck.
 
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Jeff K

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I currently have one navcom, one VOR with glide slope. What all would I need to be able to start my IFR?
Just the will to focus on your training on not get distracted spending money on new toys. You are good to go at least to train on. I'd pass your written first.

BTW, will you be keeping the airplane for 3 or more years after you complete the training? If you are, and still want to spend some money, the GPS'es might make sense... otherwise you'll not get the money out of it.
 

Ed Dartford

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A DG with plan view format (I don't know the proper terminology) will help a lot. I would hate to do procedure turns or holds without a Heading bug.
 

Ray93J

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A DG with plan view format (I don't know the proper terminology) will help a lot. I would hate to do procedure turns or holds without a Heading bug.
Vertical card is what they are called. He has a Piper Auto Control auto pilot. Both the DG and attitude gryro are part of the auto pilot system. He can not change either with making the auto pilot inoperable. When you engage the auto pilot, you must change the DG heading to "0" to have it track. All of this was fine for VFR. Major confusion in IFR. The best thing would be to dump the hole autopilot and install more modern gyros for IFR training.

I have a 66 180C with the same autopilot. I was very lucky 20 years ago to fine one of the very few Piper vertical card DG's that worked with the Autocontrol.
 

Charley

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Vertical card is what they are called. He has a Piper Auto Control auto pilot. Both the DG and attitude gryro are part of the auto pilot system. He can not change either with making the auto pilot inoperable. When you engage the auto pilot, you must change the DG heading to "0" to have it track. All of this was fine for VFR. Major confusion in IFR. The best thing would be to dump the hole autopilot and install more modern gyros for IFR training.

I have a 66 180C with the same autopilot. I was very lucky 20 years ago to fine one of the very few Piper vertical card DG's that worked with the Autocontrol.

Is that an Autocontrol II that Supercop has?

And do I see it marked "In-Op"?

There happens to be an Autocontrol II "Operating Instructions" manual on eBay at this moment:

http://m.ebay.com/itm/1963-Piper-Autocontrol-II-Original-Operating-Instructions-/121261492275

I'm guessing that the Autocontrol III is completely different from the Autocontrol II?

There is no shortage of vertical card DGs for the Autocontrol III.
 
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Ray93J

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Is that an Autocontrol II that Supercop has?

And do I see it marked "In-Op"?

There happens to be an Autocontrol II "Operating Instructions" manual on eBay at this moment:

http://m.ebay.com/itm/1963-Piper-Autocontrol-II-Original-Operating-Instructions-/121261492275

I'm guessing that the Autocontrol III is completely different from the Autocontrol II?

There is no shortage of vertical card DGs for the Autocontrol III.
Yes, it appears to be the same as mine, Autocontrol II. I did not see the little INOP sticker.

The Autocontrol II was a Piper home brew. Autocontrol III was a Century unit.
 

Ed Dartford

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All the old Cherokees I have flown had an autopilot that looks like that in the photo, and all had the "vertical card" DG. I would give up the autopilot for a VC DG.
 

Supercop0184

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It is inoperable, and no one knows how to make it work. Probably WOULD be worth losing the antiquated inop autopilot for a good less confusing DG
 
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