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Aproach in selling my Airplane

rbaronex

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Greetings all,
I have a 1985 PA-28-161 2700TT 380 SMOH. Here's the dilemma. Purchased in 2007 for $56k. Invested another $10k into it flew from 2007 to 9/2008 - and medical issue kicked it - no flying since then, Last annual 6/2008 - everything was normal. It sat in a hanger for 3 years, and its been tied down outside since 2011. The airplane is somewhat maintained, even though not flown (taxing, run-ups, oil changes, new battery) but no flying and no annual done since 2008. I now need to sell it. Obviously, a fresh annual would be needed, I don't want to take a huge hit on the selling price. Obviously, I'm not going to recover $60k, but would look at $45K. The exterior paint is a 7 and still has its shine, - the interior is a 7 as well with replaced interior trim. Located in sunny Arizona, but covered. Install in the past: Upgraded windshield, Wingtip recognition lights, new tires, led tach, new stainless steel battery box, cables and more.

What would my options be here? A fresh annual would be a given, but how would the airplane sitting on the ground since 2008 effect a buyer's decision?

Thanks all. Just looking for some opinions...

Rob
 
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Kristin

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Greetings all,
I have a 1985 PA-28-161 2700TT 380 SMOH. Here's the dilemma. Purchased in 2007 for $56k. Invested another $10k into it flew from 2007 to 9/2008 - and medical issue kicked it - no flying since then, Last annual 6/2008 - everything was normal. It sat in a hanger for 3 years, and its been tied down outside since 2011. The airplane is somewhat maintained, even though not flown (taxing, run-ups, oil changes, new battery) but no flying and no annual done since 2008. I now need to sell it. Obviously, a fresh annual would be needed, I don't want to take a huge hit on the selling price. Obviously, I'm not going to recover $60k, but would look at $45K. The exterior paint is a 7 and still has its shine, - the interior is a 7 as well with replaced interior trim. Located in sunny Arizona, but covered. Install in the past: Upgraded windshield, Wingtip recognition lights, new tires, led tach, new stainless steel battery box, cables and more.

What would my options be here? A fresh annual would be a given, but how would the airplane sitting on the ground since 2008 effect a buyer's decision?

Thanks all. Just looking for some opinions...

Rob
When I am asked to do a pre-purchase evaluation on an aircraft that has been sitting like yours, I tell them to assume that the cam is corroded and that it will fail in the first 100 hours. That puts the valuation as though the engine were run out. That, of course, puts a huge hit on the value of the aircraft, but that is what happens when you leave it sit like that. I also tell them that they can expect a couple of annual inspections that are way more expensive than normal for that type of aircraft.

Luckily for you, buyers at the lower end are often naive and excited about owning an aircraft and will buy it and trust the annual inspection that you just had done. Make sure that the shop that does the annual has insurance and make sure that you have a sales contract that spells out that it is an AS-IS sale and that there are no warranties. Be careful not to make any representations about the aircraft's condition. Put up lots of pictures in the ad and photograph the logs and make them available. When a buyer has an engine go south to the turn of $25K, shortly after they have bought it, the often look for someone to sue. You have to protect yourself from that with the contract and not saying anything about the aircraft that could be construed as misleading.
 
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sourdough44

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I would start getting it cleaned up some. Where about are you located?

Whoever may buy it would likely want a mechanical evaluation, if they can't do one their self. For that reason I doubt I would spend much $$ on an annual unless a buyer was lined up. Whatever condition it is now will only get worse if you let it go longer.
 

bgmac

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On the plus side, you are in Arizona and humidity is quite low. That is one of the reasons the military bone-yard is out that way. They store there planes out in the desert for years and can pull them out de-pickle them and fly-em.

You may want to do a good annual and have a buddy start flying it and get some hours on it and it may bring up the value.
 

raymos

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As a comparison, I know a guy that picked up a 1980 161 after it sat for almost two years in the Georgia outdoors. Seller said it had been run up monthly.

Basic old IFR panel but it all worked and air conditioning that did not.

He got it for around 20k, had to replace one cylinder and has been flying since the annual was completed shortly after the ferry permit got it home.

Most people would have walked away but he took a bit of a gamble and it paid off. It was, IMO priced right, assuming 10 to 20k of engine work.

As Kristin said, expect any buyer to knock off a rebuild from the price. If you can get more, it's because of the Arizona dry air.
 
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Kristin

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As a comparison, I know a guy that picked up a 1980 161 after it sat for almost two years in the Georgia outdoors. Seller said it had been run up monthly.

Basic old IFR scion but it all worked and air conditioning that did not.

He got it for around 20k, had to replace one cylinder and has been flying since the annual was completed shortly after the ferry permit got it home.

Most people would have walked away but he took a bit of a gamble and it paid off. It was, IMO priced right, assuming 10 to 20k of engine work.

As Kristen said, expect any buyer to knock off a rebuild from the price. If you can get more, it's because of the Arizona dry air.
It is a crapshoot. I know a PA-28-140 that sat for five years in Lancaster, CA, right next to the Mojave Desert. The cam started to come apart in 40 hours from corrosion and the engine was toast.

The only way to make sure that the cam is good in a Lycoming engine is to pull two cylinders and look. Some sellers are OK with that, others know that they will be left holding the bag if it turns out that the cam and cam followers are rusted.
 
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owillia

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r baronet any pics of this '85 Pa-29-161...inside and out?
 

mdjezierski

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Greetings all,
I have a 1985 PA-28-161 2700TT 380 SMOH. Here's the dilemma. Purchased in 2007 for $56k. Invested another $10k into it flew from 2007 to 9/2008 - and medical issue kicked it - no flying since then, Last annual 6/2008 - everything was normal. It sat in a hanger for 3 years, and its been tied down outside since 2011. The airplane is somewhat maintained, even though not flown (taxing, run-ups, oil changes, new battery) but no flying and no annual done since 2008. I now need to sell it. Obviously, a fresh annual would be needed, I don't want to take a huge hit on the selling price. Obviously, I'm not going to recover $60k, but would look at $45K. The exterior paint is a 7 and still has its shine, - the interior is a 7 as well with replaced interior trim. Located in sunny Arizona, but covered. Install in the past: Upgraded windshield, Wingtip recognition lights, new tires, led tach, new stainless steel battery box, cables and more.

What would my options be here? A fresh annual would be a given, but how would the airplane sitting on the ground since 2008 effect a buyer's decision?

Thanks all. Just looking for some opinions...

Rob
Sounds similar to an aircraft in Ohio I evaluated for purchase and decided to pass on. It was out of annual for 10+ years and owner decided to put a new paint job on the aircraft and died before the job was done. Now the shop is trying to recoup the paint costs and there it sits. Overpriced and likely corroded engine.

You might go ahead with a gasket kit and have the A&P pull a couple cylinders and scope the cam. If there is corrosion, you'll have to dump it for about $20-25K with the understanding it needs a major.
 

rbaronex

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Thank you all for all your opinions and replies to my question. That's good info on the subject. Since posting, my I/A that was maintaining the airplane performed a scope check and will be pulling a few cylinders off to inspect for corrosion. So far, I was told I seem to luck out - probably due to the fact that this airplane is based out of AZ. Another factor that may have helped me was my routine oil changes and using Aeroshell anti-corrosive oil during all these oil changes. The airplane did get taxied, run-up at simulated take-offs at full power due to our long runways. At least once per month, sometimes once per week. Oil pressure good, never found any signs of metal particles in the oil filter, applied corrosion X at different time periods/ The exterior still shines after aviation grade wax applied and does a great job sealing the airplane. So in reality, it really never just sat dead in the water/ The engine fires right up, both mags check out normal. Keeping my fingers crossed when the cylinders are pulled. But yes, one of our members here did suggest, get a thorough annual performed, and get that plane up in the air for quite a few hours to hopefully get some value back. We'll see. Thanks all !

RB
 

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