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Old 10-11-2017, 01:03 AM   #11
Flying_Monkey
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Passengers maybe canít see straight down in a low wing but they can still see a lot. I hate the feeling of being under a high wing, maybe because I am tall and feel I have to duck even to look level left or right. Low wing with pax just gives me more of an excuse to do some fun turns anyway...


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Old 10-11-2017, 01:25 AM   #12
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Passengers maybe canít see straight down in a low wing but they can still see a lot. I hate the feeling of being under a high wing, maybe because I am tall and feel I have to duck even to look level left or right. Low wing with pax just gives me more of an excuse to do some fun turns anyway...
Yupp, same here. At 6.2 feet, I don't like the high wings at all. Turns around a point is bit challenging in low wing, but once u get the hang if it, it's pretty easy. Piper flyers are know to get lazy on rudder, but I'd I am not using rudder, I drift quite a bit on take off, so that might just be a myth. Another thing is the rudder authority while taxing, u get much more authority than Cessna s. I believe it's due to push pull rod in piper vs bungee chord in Cessna s


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Old 10-11-2017, 04:26 PM   #13
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IMHO the PA-28 is an easier aircraft to learn to fly than any of the Cessnas.

This can be both good and bad. I have flown with a few guys who learned in Cherokees and never did figure out what that whole rudder thing was for.
I'm confused, you don't have to use rudder in a Piper while landing?
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Old 10-11-2017, 07:17 PM   #14
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I'm confused, you don't have to use rudder in a Piper while landing?
My point was that you can get away with not really knowing how to use rudder when flying a PA-28.

You will need it for takeoff. You *should* use it during landing, but the Piper's built-in roll stability and wide-track landing gear, not to mention the wing being more completely in ground effect, make it almost too easy to land. PA-28 pilots can get away with being pretty lazy.

A pilot transitioning from learning in PA-28s to high-wing Cessnas, especially the lighter high-wing Cessnas like the 150, 152, or 162 will have a tough time with landings on crosswind or turbulent days. Their turn coordination can also suck.

Taildraggers are a whole different ballgame.
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Old 10-11-2017, 07:20 PM   #15
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My point was that you can get away with not really knowing how to use rudder when flying a PA-28.

You will need it for takeoff. You *should* use it during landing, but the Piper's built-in roll stability and wide-track landing gear, not to mention the wing being more completely in ground effect, make it almost too easy to land. PA-28 pilots can get away with being pretty lazy.

A pilot transitioning from learning in PA-28s to high-wing Cessnas, especially the lighter high-wing Cessnas like the 150, 152, or 162 will have a tough time with landings on crosswind or turbulent days. Their turn coordination can also suck.

Taildraggers are a whole different ballgame.
I really don't see that between the 172 and the PA-28. Yes, the 172 is tippier in a crosswind landing, but I often need to have the rudder hard to the stop for landing my Warrior as well. And neither of them requires much rudder for coordinated turns at rate one or lessóI've seen zero difference.

For a taildragger, yes, I believe you that there's a big difference because of the relatively larger rudder/tail surface area on a lot of them, and risk of ground loops.


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Old 10-11-2017, 07:30 PM   #16
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Right, but you're also using proper crosswind technique. Not everyone who started on PA-28s learned that.

You can land a Piper in pretty brisk crosswinds by crabbing left (or right) ten degrees and flying that sucker right onto the runway with the crab still in. The wide gear, low wing and low CG, and oleo strut setup make that possible. Yeah, it'll feel a little awkward, but that's about it.

Trying that in a 172 will get you a nasty sideload and swerve at best, and a big maintenance bill at worst.
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Old 10-11-2017, 08:57 PM   #17
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You can land a Piper in pretty brisk crosswinds by crabbing left (or right) ten degrees and flying that sucker right onto the runway with the crab still in. The wide gear, low wing and low CG, and oleo strut setup make that possible. Yeah, it'll feel a little awkward, but that's about it.
I imagine you'd also leave more than a little rubber on the runway, and see "new tire" show up pretty often as a line item in your maintenance invoices, but yes, you're probably right that someone could land a PA-28 that way.

They would still have had to demonstrate proper crosswind landing techniques (as well as sideslips and forward slips) to get their PPL, though, so at some point in their flying experience they'll have used those rudder pedals.
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Old 10-11-2017, 11:49 PM   #18
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Ha, yes. I'm not arguing for it as correct technique, just one that I see fairly often from our local pilot mill kids who have learned in PA-28s on a long runway which never has crosswinds.

They come over to my home field on their solos and are surprised when the wind isn't directly down the (much narrower) runway.

I know they know how to push the rudder pedals (and how to do slips) but it's a long way from being able to "demonstrate" that to an instructor/DPE to actually being able to use them well on a daily basis in the real world.
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Old 10-12-2017, 12:59 AM   #19
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I'm confused, you don't have to use rudder in a Piper while landing?
Cessna used the bungee setup in the nose wheel and think of it as self centering when you land and centers itself despite the left/right rudder inputs that are being done.

Pipers don't use the bungee and so if your landing and have left/right rudder input in your nose wheel when touching down, the nose wheel will be pointing in the direction of your rudder input from the pedals.

Easy to get used too in Pipers and just a little different than Snessna's
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Old 10-16-2017, 02:37 PM   #20
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"I'm confused, you don't have to use rudder in a Piper while landing?"

You do, but due to the solid link between rudder pedals and nosewheel steering, it must be neutralized before the nosewheel touches down.

How much tailwheel time do you have?


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